Movement Integration and Couple Support Through Life Transitions
Listen in on Episode 6 featuring Lindsay Bauer, LMFT (Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, Yoga Instructor), and co-hosts Kira Yakubov, LMFT (Founder and Lead Therapist), and Daniela Galdi (Health & Wellness Professional and HYR Podcast Producer).
PART 1 – Getting to know therapist, Lindsay Bauer, LMFT, and how she provides therapeutic connections through movement, mindfulness, and talk therapy to support individuals and couples.
PART 2 – Approaches for processing emotions for Couples – Meditation and methods to help build connections to one another, rewards in learning more about your partner, and exploring vulnerability.
PART 3 – Specializing in Infertility: From personal experience to spreading understanding for others with tips to help support one another throughout infertility circumstances from her own experience as well as a professional perspective for a couple.
Content Warnings: Mentions of Mental Illness, Depiction or discussion of particular kinds of consensual sexual activity, and Discussion on Infertility.
Sound quality and other technical issues were beyond our control and may be experienced throughout this episode.
Some episode highlights include…
What led Lindsay to become a psychotherapist, yoga instructor, training in Bali, and starting a private practice.
Growth during the graduate program – courses in blended families, etc.,
Vulnerability of your own life, classes to help normalize and navigate talking about sex, and how therapists train in their own comfort levels to help their clients.
Getting in tune with emotions to better communicate through mindfulness.
Approaches for processing emotions for Couples’ – meditation and methods to help build connections to one another and exploring vulnerability.
Opening up about the difficulties in getting pregnant and how her experience is her drive towards providing a space where people can feel hope with whatever the outcome is.
Expand for Podcast Transcript
Lindsay Bauer 0:03
When I use yoga for trauma, people can experience and unlock things in their body than just talking about it.
A therapist in the making: Lindsay’s origin story
Kira Yakubov 0:18
Welcome back to Heal Your Roots Podcast. I’m Kira Yakubov, Founder and Lead Therapist at Heal Your Roots Wellness. Today’s topic will be covering the connections we can make to help improve and manage our health from a mental and physical approach. It’ll also take us on a sensitive topic of infertility, quality of life and accepting our worthiness despite challenges. I’m very excited to bring on Lindsay Bauer today. She’s the founder of Yogology and a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist. So thank you so much for being on today, Lindsay.
Lindsay Bauer 0:51
Hi. Thank you for having me. Excited to be here.
Kira Yakubov 0:55
Yes. So what I typically like to ask guests the first time, or the first question really is what got you into therapy, like how’d you become a therapist was kind of like your origin story of this process.
Lindsay Bauer 1:10
So there’s many stories. I feel like from different stages of life, it kind of redirected my path and my career, but I will say, My parents divorced when I was 14 has a lot to do with it just because it gave me perspective about relationships. I didn’t know it at 14 years old. But my mom says, and I vaguely remember you had at that time, when your parents went through a divorce, and there was custody, you had to go to group counseling. I just remember court ordered it. And I took the stance of helping other children. I remember sitting at a like a big table and kind of saying like, you know, if our parents are happy, maybe this is healthier in the long run. And the counselor had reported that to my mom, and she still brings it up. She’s like you were always a little therapist. But I will say when I was in undergrad, I had done, I was a psych major. And none of the classes were interesting me at all, like abnormal psych. I think Industrial Organizational Psych was fascinating. But I just wasn’t finding something that I felt a career. And then I took a family theories class, and it had to have been combination of like the professor was amazing. But I did every single reading every single homework assignment, nothing felt dreadful, or like I needed to procrastinate just felt natural. So when I graduated, I was like, Oh, I’m going to look for marriage family therapy programs. So I was in combination of that. That’s kind of what led to me becoming a psychotherapist, and not like a psychiatrist, or one of the other avenues in the field.
Kira Yakubov 3:07
I love that, so it was already like a natural part of your being very mature, like, everybody, we shouldn’t really we should consider our parents and their happiness.
Lindsay Bauer 3:17
Or just like the health of it. Not every negative thing is the worst case scenario. Like who thinks of that at 14?
Kira Yakubov 3:26
A mature Lindsay
Lindsay Bauer 3:28
A therapist in the making
Kira Yakubov 3:31
What to Expect from Sex Therapy Track for Therapists
Lindsay Bauer 3:32
so what was it like for you when you went through grad school for the marriage and family classes because I also did that track and found that to be one of my favorites. Like, I really enjoyed abnormal psych because there was a cool learning about, we learned about like, different famous people throughout history and like they’re disorders which was intriguing, but not something I necessarily wanted to do. So I’m curious of what it was like when you did have the the marriage classes because I know you’re also a couples therapist.
Yeah, I thoroughly enjoyed graduate school. I think it was one of my biggest growing experiences. professionally, personally, I don’t know about your program, but we were asked to do a lot of the digging and the deep diving work that we expected to take clients on. And it was life changing. So yes, personally, I think that it was just an experience that I would never ever ever be who I was today or be the therapist I am today without that program. And we took we had a two tracks and I took the track families in conflict. So that talk was specific about blended families, families, fours, etc. So kind of bringing in that marriage component when I work with couples. I think that people It really helps. And that was something I really took from the program was like, Some couples come to me, they’ve already decided on divorce. Right. So I talked to them about their civil ways to go through divorce. And also how are you going to portray that to your children? Sure. So yeah, I would say that was, that was pretty monumental for me and the program.
Kira Yakubov 5:22
That’s really cool. We didn’t have a separation in the track for marriage and family therapy. And we didn’t talk a lot about, like the divorce process. It was more about the marriage and keeping, you know, couples together. And like family therapy, whether it be like, you know, if there’s a child identify patients, stuff like that. So that’s really interesting that they really have we went into, like, divorce and blended families and how to go through that process.
Lindsay Bauer 5:50
Yeah, yeah. That’s what I found fascinating, too, was like, Hey, we’re not going to keep everybody together. Yeah. And that took the pressure off. I remember one of my professors saying, Hey, your goal here is not to make everything feel pretty afterwards or perfect afterwards. In fact, you know, some people are going to come in already with their minds made up that divorce is the only answer. And sometimes that is the only answer. Yeah. So I was glad that they gave us the tools then to equip a family with or when they have chosen to separate hmm.
Kira Yakubov 6:26
And it’s fun to use as a deep dive work in grad school, because we talked about this in the last episode, but I laughed because it was like, our own therapy, right? Like you have to be extremely vulnerable and raw. And like, write papers about your own life, your like family of origin. Talk about it in front of your classmates. Yeah, it was like straight up group therapy. In grad school.
Lindsay Bauer 6:48
We had. Did you take a sex therapy track
Kira Yakubov 6:53
So I did postgraduate sex there. But we just have a human like one human sexuality class and grad school.
Lindsay Bauer 6:59
Okay, so we had a sex therapy track, which is not what I was on. Because I did the families in complex. The we still were required every student to do a sex therapy class. And we had to watch porn. Oh, yeah,
Kira Yakubov 7:16
that was fun.
Lindsay Bauer 7:17
That was something else talk about like group therapy, but watching porn together. Quite an experience with with professors in the room.
Kira Yakubov 7:28
That’s so funny. I remember when I went through my program, we had to do it. It was like my classes at 9am. And that was like, almost not every week, we would have to do that. But a lot of weeks. I would be like texting my husband, my boyfriend then was like, yeah, we’re just watching like anal porn at 9 am.
Lindsay Bauer 7:45
Kira Yakubov 7:46
Yea, good day. Just assessing. And for the listeners, the reason we do that is basically to normalize different types of sex, ,sexuality, orientations. And while you’re talking to clients, because it’s like, sometimes it could be a taboo topic, or you just feel uncomfortable talking about sex. If your clients are talking about sex, it’s going to be really tough to help navigate that if you freeze up or you feel uncomfortable hearing like words like pussy, right? Like, you would have to like, say them over and over.
Lindsay Bauer 8:17
Kira Yakubov 8:18
I don’t know if they did that in your class. So
Lindsay Bauer 8:19
yeah, the desensitizing basically. So I’ve had couples or even individuals come in, and they want to talk about their own personal masturbation, I mean, talk about like, vulnerability.
Kira Yakubov 8:31
Lindsay Bauer 8:31
And if I start to get, ooh, they’re going to clam up right away, they’re going to be out the door, or they’re never going to approach that topic again. So it is important that you get comfortable with how you initially feel about sex. Is trauma related to it for you is, is it something that was taboo growing up? And we don’t talk about that? Yes. Names for any parts. And, you know, so that was that class was really helpful for that? Because it gives me languages and comfortability to take clients to places that are therapeutic.
Kira Yakubov 9:10
Yeah. And especially if you’re working with couples, right, but that’s what I found, like, we only have that human sexuality class in grad school, and you work with couples and sex is going to come on. And we can’t be like, Oh, I don’t work with that. Talk to somebody else when it’s so intertwined with your relationship.
Lindsay Bauer 9:28
Kira Yakubov 9:28
Lindsay Bauer 9:28
Yoga and couples therapy
Kira Yakubov 9:29
Yeah. So speaking of that piece of it, I also know that you are a yoga instructor, and that you do a lot of mind and body work. And so I’m curious if you can share a little bit about how you got into that.
Lindsay Bauer 9:42
Absolutely. So I’ve always had this pull towards yoga. Not as a kid that was I don’t think I even know what yoga was as a kid but undergrad, I would play around with who exercises in college regularly. So if I ever did exercise, I would always be pulled towards yoga classes. And that was 2000. And I’m revealing my age, like 2007, eight, and I don’t think yoga was as trendy as it is now. So I was just gravitating towards yoga. And then after, after graduate school, we did have illness, like I forget the name of the specific class, but it was like chronic illnesses and therapy, and that instructors started introducing mindfulness and how it can help with illnesses, anxiety, etc. And I remember feeling naturally pulled towards that I remember we’d have to go through scripts and take people through mindfulness exercises, and people just be like, Whoa, see, like, that worked. And so that was another experience where it just felt I was a passionate about it, but I also felt good at it. And when you’re good at something you like it better.
Kira Yakubov 11:08
Yoga and Couples Therapy
Lindsay Bauer 11:09
Yeah. And then traveling. So I got my yoga teacher training in Bali, Indonesia. That sounds like a dream. It was and it was a month long, immersive program. So when you do something like that, and you’re immersed in, it becomes you. And I think when I came back, I was changed. I was like, Yeah, that’s exactly when I started a private practice. And said, it’s gonna focus on mind body.
Kira Yakubov 11:35
Oh I love that.
Lindsay Bauer 11:36
Kira Yakubov 11:37
That’s so cool. How was your experience there for a month? I mean, I’m jealous. I always wanted to go to Bali.
Lindsay Bauer 11:43
It’s beautiful. It’s so it was very, we were on a schedule training programs. So do I wish that I would have extended and maybe travelled around a bit more to experience Bali as a whole. But we have like days off and we have lunches and stuff and we’d go into a blue the town and just very yoga friendly. Like they had yoga studios all throughout. There’s something there’s spiritual about Bali, very warming very, like you walk through there just feels like love and beauty the smells. Everything was so floral and green. And oh, I loved it. The food? Not so much. You know, and when I travel food’s very important. And I typically fall in love, but I didn’t.
Kira Yakubov 12:39
Lindsay Bauer 12:39
Kira Yakubov 12:40
I was about to close my eyes and like, have you paint the picture? Being there,
Lindsay Bauer 12:44
the rice fields, and the cafes where you’re overlooking like Land.
Kira Yakubov 12:50
Sounds so nice.
Lindsay Bauer 12:51
It is. It’s a beautiful place.
Kira Yakubov 12:53
And I know with yoga, I mean, any kind of like, mind body connection, considering being like, mindful. I know that with trauma work, it’s in our body, a lot of it’s in our body. And like, while talk therapy has its place, and I think can be super beneficial in recognizing triggers, understanding how to cope and like just having language for what’s going on. Have you found that yoga has really helped with working through trauma, just like an experiential part of it?
Trauma can get stored in our bodies
Lindsay Bauer 13:24
Yeah, absolutely. So I think like, like, like, you’re saying how trauma, it gets stored in our bodies. And you ask someone to talk through it. And either they’re immediately rushed with triggers, and they shut down, maybe a panic attack, because you ask them money to feel it in their body, it just has a different experience than talking about it. And yoga. So there’s, you know, the difference of mindfulness or meditation exercises, which are very beneficial. And then there’s yoga, which is a little bit more like movement, meditation. So what I noticed is, when when I use yoga, which I would like to use more of, but when I use yoga for trauma, people can experience and unlock things in their body than just talking about it. So for example, I have a client who carries a lot of trauma in their shoulders. Yeah, you wouldn’t if you went into a therapy office, you wouldn’t expect to be talking about oh my traumas in my shoulder. But I get this person to think about that. Where do you feel it most like my shoulders are just always tight and it feels so uncomfortable and when I’m triggered, they feel tight. So I focused yoga poses that help release some tension in shoulder areas. So these three specific stretches or poses. So there’s a chunk of app, right? Let’s go to the ailment, let’s go to the area that you’re carrying trauma mostly. But then there’s also the component of like I said, mindfulness movement. So yoga is meant to like, you move with your breath, you you stay in opposed. And notice everything that comes up in that pose. And what that does is allow you to tune into your body, it allows you to tune into your struggles, it allows you to tune into so many things happening, but it also feels like nothing’s happening the same time. So you’re in control, interest, and what what happens with trauma were out of control. So you’re teaching someone how you can have control again, even in the toughest parts of your body.
Kira Yakubov 15:43
Yeah, that’s so beautiful. That’s,
Lindsay Bauer 15:47
it sounds like you want do yoga.
Kira Yakubov 15:49
Lindsay Bauer 15:50
I do too [Laughing]
Kira Yakubov 15:52
As we were to talk about that, like, that’s where I store all of my, like, emotional distress. And just regular stress is my shoulders, and my neck. And I recognize that. So like, as I was traveling, I felt like, you know, whenever I’m like carefree, and like, I didn’t feel any pain, I was there. And then I came back, and I started doing sessions again. And it’s a lot of emotional energy. And I just felt my shoulders lock again. And I was like, Oh, crap, like, I need to stretch, I need to do more yoga.
Lindsay Bauer 16:29
And then it’s cyclical, right? So I personally hold it in my shoulder as well. And then I get like, really bad tension headaches.
Kira Yakubov 16:36
Lindsay Bauer 16:36
Or when I sleep, I wake up with a kinked neck.
Kira Yakubov 16:40
Lindsay Bauer 16:40
so then there’s actually pain, not just discomfort or achy. But then when you’re in pain, or you’re achy, you’re in a bad mood. And then a bad mood kind of prevents you from doing the things that make you feel better. And then it’s, it can be very cyclical. So I just, this is why I love doing mind body because it gives a little extra healing that if it goes missed, it could just keep you in that pattern.
Yoga for processing trauma
Kira Yakubov 17:14
You and I met in Center City, Philadelphia, when I was renting space from you. And your office, which was I’m so sad that it’s gone to the pandemic and everything but it was such a beautiful space. And you had a dedicated space for doing yoga with your clients. And so I’m curious, do you bring in any of that talk therapy in those yoga sessions? Or is it kind of like separate? Like the boundary between when we’re in talk therapy? We’re talking when we’re doing yoga? That’s what we’re focusing on?
Lindsay Bauer 17:46
Yeah, so it’s yes and no, there have been some clients that have been open to being able to talk through it during happening during the yoga poses. So for example, a client of mine was getting into inversions, and inversions, for a lot of people are a fear
Kira Yakubov 18:07
What is that?
Lindsay Bauer 18:08
going upside down. Oh, yes, man’s hand stands. Shoulder Stand, so anything upside down, but I have a lot of props, which can help people get into it safely, and then also feel completely supported when they’re in it. But I’m telling you the fear of even kicking a leg up, you know, holding them.
Kira Yakubov 18:32
Lindsay Bauer 18:32
So there are points where have someone almost have a little little mini panic attack
Kira Yakubov 18:37
Lindsay Bauer 18:37
And then we talked through it in that moment, I said, you feeling fear. And how impossible does this feel right now and get through, you know, just talk through it process through it. So I’ve never really had an experience where we start talking about their parents conflicts and how it felt abusive, and in their relationship during a yoga pose. But things like fear or trauma, or what are you holding on to in this moment? That makes sense. It’s not the same as like, talk therapy is like really diving into a past story as much. But it is kind of like, what are you feeling in this moment? Do you struggle with fear through a lot of parts of your life? Do you see? Do you find yourself stopping yourself when you get scared?
Kira Yakubov 19:24
Lindsay Bauer 19:24
Kira Yakubov 19:25
I feel like I’m gonna have to like book a session with you after this, but that’s wonderful. So it sounds like it’s it’s not about the past or the future. It’s more about like the experience right now. And it’s very therapeutic. And like, bringing that connection and having them be aware and move through it and get through it with someone that’s there to support them.
Lindsay Bauer 19:46
That’s it. Yeah, that’s exactly yeah,
Kira Yakubov 19:49
Lindsay Bauer 19:50
Right. Well, how important is the present moment?
Kira Yakubov 19:52
Lindsay Bauer 19:54
Kira Yakubov 19:55
yeah. And so I know as we talked about, you work with couples How How do you do that with couples? Do you do the mind body and yoga work with couples as well?
Lindsay Bauer 20:06
So, I’ve always wanted to do couples yoga, and I have not. So that is something that I’m still going to work on and expand and kind of fit into my practice in the future. It’s a dream. But mindfulness gasps almost every session. So and you probably do this without even knowing but a lot of times with emotion focused therapy (EFT) or Gottman method, there’s a lot of stuff with the Gottman method, you know, when there’s the shutting down, and then they we instruct the partner who’s shutting down or feeling overwhelmed or flooded to do a self soothing exercise; that’s mindfulness, right? Or sometimes I see my couple getting into a high conflict, and I can feel the tension rising. And I’ll just pause in the moment and we’ll do a breathing exercise, or sometimes just my language of can we just pause and what’s happening right now for you? A what’s happening for you, B? And get them in tune with their emotions? Yeah, take a moment and talk from this calmer place than the escalated place so that that’s mindfulness. Are they sitting there meditating together? But I mean, could they? Yes, I’ve, I’ve created I’ve recorded a couple’s meditation for couples to use. And so far, it’s helped one couple.
Kira Yakubov 21:31
Lindsay Bauer 21:32
Yeah, yeah. So they like hold hands. And they lay or sit together, and then just listen to the guided meditation.
Kira Yakubov 21:39
Oh, that’s so sweet
Lindsay Bauer 21:41
it is really sweet. They there was that it was it was lovely. And they felt super connected. Yeah, there’s a part of it where you feel the heartbeat of your partner through your mom. So that kind of connection of the heart. Yeah, combining the heart reduces tension and reduces anger and kind of promotes more love and acceptance with each other. That is so sweet.
Kira Yakubov 22:03
I’m gonna like look at my husband back here and say that we should totally do that.
Lindsay Bauer 22:08
Yeah, I’ll send it.
Couples therapy and infertility
Kira Yakubov 22:09
Yeah, I love that. It’s awesome. And so, I mean, I love that you take that approach, because I know a lot of talk therapy is, you know, processing through the motions, like figuring out the cycle that couples gets stuck in, where you’re really like, in the moment what’s happening right now. And then not even just working through conflict, but like, how can we build more of that connection and vulnerability and love? Which I feel like sometimes I think couples therapy gets a bad rap or like, some of the stigma is, we’re only talking about the conflicts so the things that aren’t going well. And we do also focus on like, Well, how do you become more connected? How are you intentional about spending quality time being present for each other?
Lindsay Bauer 22:54
Yeah, right. Like, couples therapy is work.
Kira Yakubov 22:58
Lindsay Bauer 22:59
it is a lot of work. But it’s also connection. And there’s rewards to it. Right? Like couples, sometimes I think, I model or tell clients, when they sign up, I’m like, listen, there will be days that this feels like work, like you will fight in a session. However, there will also be days where you feel like you’ve learned more about your partner and you feel more connected, or maybe even more in love with them. Imagine. So just there a couple of therapy’s rewarding. It’s like a little retreat.
Kira Yakubov 23:33
There’s definitely sweet parts ofit. For anyone who’s listening, thinking. It’s hard, but definitely very rewarding and worth it.
Lindsay Bauer 23:41
Kira Yakubov 23:43
So I know that part of kind of what we discussed prior to this is another focus that you have kind of spent some time diving into is some infertility and working with clients who might be struggling with that origins trying to get pregnant and kind of what that looks like and feels like for people. So can you share a little bit about kind of your journey with that?
Lindsay Bauer 24:12
I’ll start with why I came to it, why it’s something that I specialize in. And that’s something that I started opening my practice up to, I went through it and it’s it’s a long battle. And it does, it feels like a daily struggle, a monthly struggle. Um, so being personally exposed to almost like being personally exposed to my parents divorce, it gives you a strength, it gives you a leg up, it gives you something that you want to spread understanding to other people and as a therapist, I have that platform to do that. And I’m just passionate about this field. So yeah, I’m opening that up for couples. I’ve seen a couple at this time. So it’s still fairly new. But yeah, it’s a really trying process. And I also think that I don’t know if this is your experience, I don’t want to speak for everybody. But I don’t think the difficulties of getting pregnant are something that people really talked about. No, you know, so I feel like it’s just something that is like a silent suffering, I don’t know if people feel ashamed. If there’s stigma around, put your news out there a combination of all those things. So I want it to be something where people have a safe place to get the right kind of support, to talk about it in a way that feels therapeutic and healing and, and it can feel so hopeless. So I wanted to provide a place where people feel hope, and not just hope that they’re going to get pregnant and have a baby, because nobody can guarantee that in some of these situations, but hope that they’re going to be okay, whatever the outcome is,
Kira Yakubov 26:12
I appreciate you sharing that personal piece about you. Because I think it does really help our clients and just listeners to know that, you know, their therapists or who they’re seeing is a real human being and go through struggles, and we can be upset or sad and have things happen in our life that are traumatic. And yes, it is difficult for us as well. And it does give us that almost like I wanna say superpower, but it’s, it’s an advantage to help other people feel like we can relate and really see them.
Lindsay Bauer 26:45
Exactly, and, and in the infertility world. It can feel like you are so isolated. It can feel as if nobody gets you. There’s something about it. That’s that’s just and and a lot of people actually do go through it. Yeah. But there’s the support of people who haven’t gone through it is just not the same kind of support. Yeah. Like if a friend is has three children of their own, and they’re like, you’ll be okay, you guys just need to relax and de stress it’ll happen, that doesn’t feel supportive, it feels like false hope, you know. So that’s what I think is really important about the work that I’m doing is I’m giving people reality, but at the same time, helping them to feel hopeful through their own coping mechanisms.
Kira Yakubov 27:44
So for listeners out there for people who want to be supportive to whether it’s their family member, or friend, or someone that they love in their life, who might be struggling with fertility issues, because I know sometimes the intention, like even I mentioned that example is the intention is good. The intention is to be supportive and caring. And it doesn’t always come across that way. Right. So I’m curious, is there any tips or anything that you would want people to know? So they can support people through this process in an actually like in an actual helpful way?
Lindsay Bauer 28:18
Yes, definitely. So the first thing is, listen, ask the person what they need, don’t assume, right? And that’s almost with any type of support that you plan to offer. Grief, right? That’s another example. You wouldn’t go up to somebody and say, here’s what you need to do. Even if you are an expert at grief therapy, you still ask somebody, what do you need in this moment? So listen to what they might need, listen to their story, listen to what they’re going through. Let them know they’re not a burden. Like I said, with infertility, it’s an ongoing struggle. It’s literally daily, definitely monthly, because every month you’re getting news whether or not you conceived. So letting someone know, hey, I’m in the long haul with you. You’re not a burden. If you’re having a really bad day, and we just talked yesterday, call again today. Right? So listening, letting them know you’re in it for the long haul, letting them know that their problems are not a burden. But again, you don’t have to be this person’s therapist, right? You’re not the holder of their entire struggle. So you get to have a boundary to and it’s okay to communicate that, Hey, today, I can’t talk. I’m taking care of myself. I’m working on my own self care, etc. But, but I’m available tomorrow or the next day or one year available, because you know this, if you’re really going to help someone in the most effective way, your cup has to be full.
Kira Yakubov 30:00
Lindsay Bauer 30:00
Right. So I would say those are some of the biggest tips do not offer unsolicited advice. Unless you are a fertility doctor.
Kira Yakubov 30:11
Sure – the point of what you’re going for the appointment.
How to deal with unsolicited advice
Lindsay Bauer 30:14
Correct. Unsolicited advice can feel very. Um, you know, when they say when somebody’s crying, don’t hand them a tissue box, because you’re basically saying like, Oh, that’s making me uncomfortable kinda like, clean up. Again, oh. Okay, I’m here with you. I can, I can see you’re visibly upset. But sometimes that can come off as you’re making me uncomfortable. I can’t sit with your sadness right now.
Kira Yakubov 30:50
I don’t think anyone really enjoys giving unsolicited advice. Because we’re not asking for it. But there’s also like an assumption, right? As if, like you don’t know, or I know better.
Lindsay Bauer 31:00
Kira Yakubov 31:01
or very dismissive. Like, I mean, I really get to the point you’re trying to makeacross like, this feels uncomfortable for me to like, go handle that over there because I don’t like the way this is making me feel, which I can imagine is going to make someone feel even more shameful or isolated and feel like they can’t talk about this. Like, I don’t want to make other people feel uncomfortable. They don’t know how to help me. I’m just kind of keep this to myself.
Lindsay Bauer 31:27
Yes, exactly. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So some of the unsolicited advice. That’s typical when you for infertility, or people trying to conceive is a lot of like, people who say things like, go upside down after sex. You know, like things on like, how to get pregnant. Really? Like, this is what worked for my partner and I and it’s like, that’s, that’s an example of unsolicited advice. Yeah. Unless this person’s coming up to you and saying, Hey, what, what has worked? What did you do? It’s just, it can, feel dismissive. Like you said, it feels like, you know, better than they know. And that’s just not the case when it comes to infertility. It’s such a researched phenomenon that, yeah, it’s not going to require an upside down for 15 minutes. I know. That’s what my mom said to me
Kira Yakubov 32:28
Lindsay Bauer 32:29
Sorry mom I’m blasting you. like she was like, Well, did you put your legs up? Did you go upside down? And I was like, yeah, for two years; How come it hasn’t worked?
Kira Yakubov 32:38
I can also imagine having that like, even if the person has tried all those things. So I almost feel like what’s what’s wrong with me?
Lindsay Bauer 32:44
Kira Yakubov 32:45
what am I not doing right?
Lindsay Bauer 32:47
Kira Yakubov 32:47
Even those messages might be coming across when people aren’t necessarily trying to say that, but it goes back to, you know, the intention versus the impact. Yeah, your intention might be great. And that’s lovely. And if the impact doesn’t land, really, it’s doing more harm than good.
Lindsay Bauer 33:05
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Kira Yakubov 33:08
Is there – I lost my train of thought. So I know that we’ve kind of focused on the individual who is going through the physical process of infertility. But I’m curious of what your experience, whether it’s clients, or if you feel comfortable sharing personally, what that’s like with a partner, right? Because that’s something that the couple is going through, and not just one person, unless it is just one person doing it on their own.
Lindsay Bauer 33:38
Right, which does happen, but for the sake of couples therapy. Well, one of the big things that I work with couples is finances. So if you’re lucky, and insurance covers infertility or fertility treatments, then you’re still gonna have a financial burden. Trust me. You get with infertility there, you’re hit with medications over here and insurances, insurance companies saying, Oh, we don’t cover that. But we do cover this, but only after you try three IUI. I mean, there’s always loopholes around our medical care, right. And that’s the same with fertility treatments. So I do like to prepare couples for their financial expectations moving forward. Are they ready? Have they put money aside? Are they willing to take out a loan? What is in their budget? And how far do they want to go with this? financially and emotionally? There might be a point where they say we’re done. We’ve had this has been too taxing on our savings. This has been too taxing on our marriage. This has been too taxing on our emotions. So talk about your finances, be ready to open that up. And then I also think having timelines with each other is really important and checking in, should we take a month break a year break. And taking a break is not failing at all, it’s filling your cup back up, that’s like a big thing. Boundaries, so boundaries with who you’re bringing into the story and into this journey with you who you’re telling. boundary. And this is something personal, like my partner and I had to work a lot on was I, I couldn’t be around many women who were having kids kind of go to many baby showers. I I’ve really struggled with that. And my partner is a super social person, he’s super extroverted, gets a lot of fulfillment and his energy, his cup is full when he goes out and socializes. So we had to do a lot of negotiating around how I could take care of myself and how he could take care of himself, but still not do everything separate. Sure. So that’s something couples have talked about what’s gonna feel healing and supportive for you what’s gonna feel healing and supportive for you? Is there a compromise? Can we do this? 70% of the time and the 30% of the time? 50/50? What do you both need here?
Kira Yakubov 36:25
Lindsay Bauer 36:25
so my experience, he was more willing to cut back on some of these events. So I got lucky.
Kira Yakubov 36:36
that’s really powerful, though. I mean, I know, I don’t have a lot of I don’t have this specialty, working with clients who are struggling or going through infertility. So it’s not something that I have talked to a lot of clients about. And so it’s interesting to hear that negotiation piece, because I mean, it’s huge in couples therapy with anything,
Lindsay Bauer 36:54
Kira Yakubov 36:54
But this is like, even more so. Because, I mean, it totally makes sense. It’s gonna be hard to be around certain reminders, or certain people or other people’s joy and certain things wall, you know, the person is trying to achieve this particular part of their life and journey.
The importance of having a community of support
Lindsay Bauer 37:13
Exactly, yeah. And so the boundary piece with with friends and family, too, is in-laws or extended family, right. And I’m a sharer. So my partner wasn’t, he was kind of like, we’re not going to tell people our journey. And I didn’t force him, I promise. But I influenced him. And I said, Can we just go over why you feel resistant towards sharing. And when we kind of dug into that a bit more it was, it was just more that that’s kind of how he was raised. That was just something that he was told, like, you don’t really talk about your family issues. And when I expressed to him why it was important to talk about family issues, that meant more to him. And so we slowly started exploring. So I don’t know if you remember, we did a YouTube video. And when we shared our story, we did a fundraiser. And it was like a beef and beers. We had tons of family, tons of friends show up. And at the end of it, he was on a high. And he said, It’s because all these people showed up with support. And we weren’t sharing the information. It just felt like we were alone in this because like, we’re not alone. There’s so many people that want to be there for us. They just don’t know how, yeah. So that’s something to talk with your partner with is how can how can we feel supported? What would that look like? Sharing or not sharing, because, you know, some people do better without sharing.
Kira Yakubov 38:54
You’re giving me goosebumps sharing that story. Because that is so sweet and having I mean, I think in almost every episode, we talk about having a community and how important that is. And being able to share whatever you’re going through within your community, whether that’s family, friends, co workers, whoever that is a part of your life, and have them show up and be there for you in such a big large setting at once. It’s just like so much energy of love. So I think that’s so powerful and sweet that you both did that.
Lindsay Bauer 39:27
Yeah, it was special, really special.
Kira Yakubov 39:30
And they get to be a part of your story with that.
Lindsay Bauer 39:32
Oh yeah. And you know how many more people have checked in to see how we’re doing? It’s tremendous because they’re now included in on it. So does it open the door for unsolicited advice? Yes.
Kira Yakubov 39:32
So pros and cons
Lindsay Bauer 39:49
That’s why you choose what’s best for you.
Kira Yakubov 39:51
Yeah. And so it’s interesting. I’m thinking because I always think from a cultural perspective, just because of my background, and how much I mean even my family or like, people in like the Eastern European community, the first thing they ask, or the second thing they ask if you’re a woman is when are you getting married? And then if you’re already married, when are you having kids? Why are you not having kids? When you’re gonna have a second kid? Everything is revolved around when are you going to have this baby? And I imagine, first of all, it’s like such an intrusive question. And so inappropriate, but is like, normalized, it’s okay to just ask someone about their personal life in that way. And so I’m curious if you’ve had clients struggle with that when they don’t want to share and people are insistent on asking these types of questions.
Lindsay Bauer 40:43
Oh, of course. I mean, I can’t speak to your culture. But even American culture is still like, the woman, her the role of a woman is to be a mother. Yeah. And that’s not true. And we get to pick that you know, so. It’s absolutely come up with clients actually have a couple right now, where they’re, they’re trying to figure out their careers, they’re trying to figure out where they’re living, they have so much ambition, and they’re just like, trying to figure out their own stuff. But they do see themselves having a family. But they’re facing some pressures of mostly her family. But they’re, they’re asking questions and like, putting little comments in there kind of like, well, when do we get grandchildren? Right? And, or, Hey, they’re going to need cousins soon. They’re gonna want to play. So, yeah, it’s happening. I think it happens a lot. And it happens. I’m not trying to be like, gender specific here. But it’s, it happens a lot more to women.
Kira Yakubov 41:57
Lindsay Bauer 41:57
I just feel like, again, that conditioning of hey, you’re a woman supposed to be a mom. Yeah. Right. Um, don’t put your career first – what are you doing? Yes. So it do do get that. My, my tips, I guess I could say for someone getting that is, it depends on your relationship and how valuable the relationship is to you.
Setting boundaries for questions about having kids
Kira Yakubov 42:25
That’s a good indicator or differentiator. Yeah.
Lindsay Bauer 42:28
So someone’s like, Oh, this is like a second cousin. And I say, that’s okay. If you need to cut off from this person. Or if you need to draw a boundary that is pretty hard.
Kira Yakubov 42:40
Lindsay Bauer 42:40
Where you don’t even get caught up in these types of conversations, you’re allowed to do that. Now, if this is somebody that you value, and you’re never going to cut off from your life. It’s okay to be open and vulnerable about how much pain that might bring you or how much annoyance it might bring you or whatever you’re feeling when they say that. People don’t know.
Kira Yakubov 43:02
Lindsay Bauer 43:03
hey, when you say that you’re making me feel pressured, you’re making me feel less than you’re making me feel like my life that I’ve chosen isn’t good enough. Some people might not like, Oh, I just thought it’d be cute to have a grandchild. You know, so yeah, the intent impact the bringing to light, bringing to their attention how they’re making you feel and how they’re coming off?
Kira Yakubov 43:30
Yeah, that’s huge. I mean, I’ve had to have those conversations with my family, because it was literally, especially I’m in my 30s. And it’s like, Oh, my God, clock is ticking. And it’s like, you know, a common joke. And it is geared a lot towards women, or who individuals who identify as women, right? Who can have babies is our clocks are ticking and like, oh, especially my culture is like, oh, man can have a baby anytime, right? They can be 60 70. Who cares, but the woman can’t. So you need to get on that. And it’s just I’ve had that annoyance since I was young with my family and having to set those boundaries. Yeah, it’s tough though, especially when, I mean, I’m sure for American families with immigrant families where boundaries are frowned upon and seen as almost like disrespect for like, almost like a level of betrayal. Like you want distance from me, or I need to stop doing this because you feel this particular way. So I mean, I think that all the tips you’ve provided insight has been super helpful.
Lindsay Bauer 44:39
Well, can I ask,
Kira Yakubov 44:40
Lindsay Bauer 44:41
did you ever get like backlash when you created a boundary about them asking?
Kira Yakubov 44:46
Yeah, I mean, I’ve had to reiterate that boundary 100 times. And then and then I just thought I was like, I’m just not going to talk about this. So like, when you asked me, I’m just gonna stop the conversation because we’ve had this conversation. So it’s just not gonna go anywhere. But if you still want to have a conversation with me, don’t ask me this anymore. And don’t be surprised or upset when I just abruptly stop the convo. And that has helped. Yeah, I think when you put it, sometimes you have to put in more stern boundaries. And people eventually become conditioned to this was your response and they get used to that being your response? And if they want a different response, they’ll do something different.
Lindsay Bauer 45:25
Right? Exactly. Almost like on repeat. Oh, not talking about that. Not talking about that. Not talking about that. Yeah. And then they’re like, Well, I guess she’s not talking about that. Maybe I’ll try a new question.
Kira Yakubov 45:38
Yea. Absolutely. But it’s tough. I mean, I this is a sensitive topic and a struggle that a lot of people go through. And having people in our life, especially our loved ones not being as sensitive or understanding to that can be really hard.
Lindsay Bauer 45:56
It can be Yeah, I’m, I remember, a lot of I did get like from people who didn’t know, didn’t know me very well or didn’t know what I was going through would ask questions. Like, you know, oh, when are you going to have a baby? Do you guys talk about kids? And of course, while you’re going through the struggle, there is this stabbing feeling that’s like. Yes, we’ve talked about it for just many years. Yeah, we’re $60,000 in debt. Of course, we’ve talked about it. But there’s a moment where you just quiet yourself. And you’re like, Yeah, that would be nice. And we just kind of appease people, you know, but it is helpful. I think it’s important for listeners to know and to spread the word that we need to stop worrying so much about other people’s bodies, about their future plans about whether or not they want to fit societal roles, like just stay in your lane, focus on your life, and thrive.
Kira Yakubov 47:06
And mind your business
Lindsay Bauer 47:07
and mind your business!
Kira Yakubov 47:09
Absolutely. So I know we’re starting to come to an end, unfortunately. But I wanted to ask, is there anything that you would want to share to listeners like outside of this outside of like your role as a therapist or yoga instructor? Anything about yourself that is something fun, or that you like to do outside of work and everything?
Benefits of travel on mental health
Lindsay Bauer 47:30
Yes, sure. Because as you ask that, like, at first, I was like, Oh, my gosh, I will say since the pandemic, I’ve been a bit of a hermit. And it feels inauthentic. It feels nice. But at the same time, it feels a little like, who am I? Right, but the first thing that came to mind was traveling. I can’t tell you how much healing I have done traveling. And it doesn’t have to be a yoga training. I have traveled and immerse myself in a new language and been scared shitless I have traveled to places where I looked like no one. I’ve traveled a place that Oh, it’s just that has been my biggest growing experiences and healing experiences and connecting to who I am and who I ever wanted to be. I need to do more of it. I wish like flights and traveling wasn’t as bad and difficult as it is. And I wish COVID never happened. But it is what it is. But yes, that’s just something that I even say that to clients, you know, sometimes they’re like, how do you find purpose? Some of those big questions. I can’t tell you how to find it. But I’ll tell you something, something that’s really worked for me of every single time I’ve traveled. Not like a weekend getaway. I mean, like those international trips, feeling like the world is way bigger than you and your problem.
Kira Yakubov 49:08
Lindsay Bauer 49:09
Kira Yakubov 49:10
I agree. I absolutely love traveling, I think being outside of your box and your norm and just being like in a whole different world around different people who live in a very unique way that’s not the same and just like learning that perspective and trying food and experiencing the scenes and the weather and getting to know like local people not doing as much touristy stuff. It is healing I think that’s like soul journey kind of stuff.
Lindsay Bauer 49:39
Absolutely. Right, right. Like I always imagine if you’re going through like a crisis or tragedy that that’s something like a reset button when you’re ready.
Kira Yakubov 49:52
Lindsay Bauer 49:52
that’s not something you just go okay. I’m gonna get my depressed self out of bed and go do it tomorrow. That’s not feasible and practical, but when you’re ready, it’s waiting for you and it’s beneficial.
Kira Yakubov 50:04
Yeah. And you learn so much about yourself.
Lindsay Bauer 50:07
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Do you journal when you travel?
Kira Yakubov 50:12
You know, I always think about doing that cause I have so many thoughts and reflections. But I don’t end up actually journaling. But I do have these moments, whether it’s like, while we’re on the plane back or just like sitting and looking at a scene of just like, being really present and embracing that feeling. And like really taking a mental picture, because I love to go back to that in my head later when I come home.
Lindsay Bauer 50:38
Yes, when you come back to the crap, like I need an escape.
Kira Yakubov 50:43
Yeah, my happy place.
Lindsay Bauer 50:45
Journaling while traveling
Kira Yakubov 50:47
Do you journal while you’re away?
Lindsay Bauer 50:48
I do. And I’m not a big journal person. It’s always been fascinating. I’m not a I think journaling is very beneficial. And it’s just not something I’ve incorporated. I every time I like pick up a pencil, I’m like, blank, right? Yeah. But when I travel every day, I’m writing now like what happened and who I met and yeah, I have like, books of not, you know?
Kira Yakubov 51:14
Yeah, journal book.
Lindsay Bauer 51:15
Kira Yakubov 51:16
Lindsay Bauer 51:16
Full of my childhood experience.
Kira Yakubov 51:18
Oh, that’s sweet, maybe I’ll try that.
Lindsay Bauer 51:21
Kira Yakubov 51:21
yeah. And a couple of minutes each day. Lindsay, thank you so, so much for being on today for being vulnerable, sharing your insight and expertise and just being here with us. So I really appreciate it.
Lindsay Bauer 51:35
Thanks for having me and having this podcast and giving people an opportunity to share and we’re all learning from each other.
Kira Yakubov 51:42
absolutely is there somewhere where our listeners can find you reached out to you?
Lindsay Bauer 51:49
Absolutely. So I have a website. It is www.LindsayBauermft.com and also my instagram handle is @Yogology that’s probably the best way to find out what’s going on. I have a newsletter you can even subscribe for free and figure out any happenings or workshops. Yeah,
Kira Yakubov 52:15
perfect. Well, if anyone’s listening and wants to reach out to Lindsay, we’ll also have it in the info down below after the podcasts.