Disrupting Cultural Norms: Mental Health Perspectives on Career Choices

Podcast Transcript

• Expand for Podcast Transcript

  Why it’s important to think about your major

  Elijah Jackson  0:00

  There’s lots of hopelessness and helplessness that comes up sometimes when you’re pursuing a major that you’re not really invested in, which is why it’s so important to think about, you know, is this something that you genuinely have an interest in? If not, you probably shouldn’t be pursuing it. Rather than hoping that one day you’ll love it.

  ‍

  Kira Yakubov  0:27

  Hi, I’m Kira Yakubov, Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and Founder of Heal Your Roots Wellness practice. Every episode, we talk with a professional from the mental health field to learn more about their approaches and specialties, and also their journey of becoming a therapist. In this podcast, we’ll uncover a deeper look at the world of therapy from new perspectives. You’ll meet the therapist of Heal Your Roots Wellness practice, and trusted colleagues from the community tackling mental wellbeing are your go to network for practical and professional insight in mental health. Subscribe for new episode releases every other Wednesday.

  So welcome back. We have Elijah Jackson here with us again, he joined us last season. I’m so excited to have you back on today, Elijah.

  ‍

  What’s it like working with young adults in the healthcare field?

  Elijah Jackson  1:16

  Absolutely, it’s good to be back.

  ‍

  Kira Yakubov  1:17

  So I know when we were kind of discussing what we wanted to focus on today, we were kind of thinking about what you’ve been seeing a lot recently, and kind of the presenting issues that are like a lot of clients are coming in with. And we’ve noticed that a lot of your clients are in that, you know, young adult in college kind of young professional age range and struggling to figure out if this career or this major is the right thing for them, and how kind of family or cultural backgrounds might really influence that decision. So what’s that been like for you to kind of see that trend coming up.

  ‍

  Elijah Jackson  1:53

  Most of my clients are actually in college now. And maybe that’s just the nature of private practice. More, there are more college kids going through it. So they’re more college kids looking for therapists. But I’ve definitely found that most, most people who are in school or in school have gravitated towards me, which has been really fun. It’s kind of it kind of makes me reminiscent of myself back in college and where I was and how lost I was then and kind of trying to figure out what was best for me. And as opposed to what was best or for everyone in my family or managing other people’s expectations. So it’s kind of that’s kind of enlightening and also makes me feel like I’m, I’m loving my job more because I get to help younger people.

  ‍

  Kira Yakubov  2:49

  Oh, that’s sweet. And I also remember feeling super lost in college and even just like, going through the end of high school trying to figure out like, what is it that I’m supposed to do for the rest of my life. And I’m supposed to decide this, as a teenager having no life experience, no knowledge, nothing about what would actually make sense for me and my strengths and my personality. Now, that was that wasn’t really a well thought through and not a great expectation to have of of teenagers.

  ‍

  Elijah Jackson  3:23

  Yeah, I mean, it’s kind of ridiculous that at 18 years old, we’re expected to have it all figured out. And you no doubt and you know what you want to do for the next 40 years. I did just doesn’t make a lick of sense to me. But I find that the less pressure you put on yourself, the easier it gets. Because people are going to have expectations of you all the time. People are going to, you know, project onto you all the time. So as long as you know, you have your house in order that usually makes the transition through life better.

  ‍

  Kira Yakubov  4:00

  And so it’s you know, it’s interesting, because when I was thinking back during my college days, I didn’t know right, what I wanted to do. And I think it’s kind of this like outdated or older generation thinking you have to pick one thing, and that’s going to be the thing you do forever, because that’s kind of what it was like before, right? Like, a lot of people would say that one actual job for 20 30 40 years. So it wasn’t really like, oh, I can try this out for a little bit and then explore a new career later in life. I don’t think that was accessible or normal back in the day or for like our parents generation. So I think they’re giving that advice from their circumstances and what you know, their lived experience. Versus now it’s like, you can have many different careers and different career paths and do multiple things at once and switch it up and that’s totally okay.

  ‍

  Elijah Jackson  4:57

  Absolutely. And I think also you No, in terms of like, lots of like, first generations to like, kids who are going to school, their parents didn’t have that background. So it’s like their parents don’t know, necessarily to tell their kids that it’s okay to, you know, to move around or to change careers, you know, their, their parents might have high expectations for them, because they’re like, Oh, we’re shelling out a lot of money for you to go to school, or, you know, we’re investing a lot into you. So we want you to do something or so we want you to be the doctor or lawyer. We want you to save the world, or change the world, or at least change us. And then that puts a lot of pressure on kids so like to make up for their parents sins, or something like that. And I find that with most of my clients now, they’re when they’re navigating majors that are stressing them out, they’re navigating majors that were chosen by their parents. So it’s kids who went to school to be to be a doctor, when they never wanted to be a doctor in the first place where kids were in law school, when they never wanted to be in law school in the first place. You know, not to say that those are bad professions, those are amazing professions. But if you’re not invested into it, if it wasn’t your choice, if you don’t have any interest in it, then you’re not going to probably have a good time. And that’s going to make you more stressful. Yeah, you’re trying to make something fit that doesn’t fit.

  ‍

  What are the most common professions for immigrant students?

  Kira Yakubov  6:25

  Yeah. And you know, I was actually thinking about earlier, like, what are these main professions, the most common ones, especially for immigrant families, or, you know, different people of color, that the main jobs that our parents want and expect of us is doctor, lawyer, accountant, engineer, right? Those are the main ones. And it was interesting to think about, because, you know, I think that the intentions from the parents are good, right? They see these careers as very prestigious, they make money, it’s a secure job, you know, they’re very well respected. And it’s very useful in the family to have one or a combination of, of those professions. And like, you know, like you said, you had an especially for those, I feel like, you have to have a lot of passion and desire for that specifically, because all of those careers are hardest shit, like the actual job, but the preparation, the schooling, all of that is so draining, and it takes so much out of you, for you to not even actually like it or want to do, it seems kind of insane.

  ‍

  Elijah Jackson  7:35

  They’re, they’re going through it in a way that, you know, I could never imagine, you know, I had a hard time when school but you know, to be in medical school in rotations, having people’s lives in your hands in a certain way. And you’re not even really that invested in the work. It makes it more difficult to feel like you should be there. And they constantly have they constantly have thoughts around. Is this, is this worth it? Am I doing the right thing? Am I cheese taking up someone else’s space that deserves to be here more than I do? Because they want to be here. There’s so many ambivalent thoughts that come up for them. And it’s, it’s difficult, it’s difficult to navigate, I can only imagine what it feels like to be in that kind of situation. And there’s also the added layer of like financial investment, you know, so it’s like, these, these programs aren’t cheap. You know, lots of his commitments are, you know, something you may have to be paying off in student loans forever. There’s also the added shackles of having to navigate the for like student debt. Yeah, you know, once you sign up for it, lots of people feel like they can’t stop because they just invested too much into it. So lots of there’s lots of hopelessness and helplessness that comes up sometimes, when you’re pursuing a major that you’re not really invested in, which is why it’s so important to think about, you know, is this something that you genuinely have an interest in? If not, you probably shouldn’t be pursuing it. Rather than hoping that one day you’ll love it.

  ‍

  Kira Yakubov  9:14

  Yeah. And, man, it’s so true. Because the the financial piece is heavy, right? And I think a lot of times in any decision we make, right, like, the more time or money we invest in it, even if we don’t find it beneficial, or it’s good for us, we kind of doubled down like, well, you know, if I already went this far, I might as well keep going instead of kind of stopping and assessing like, let me cut my losses. Because I still have the rest of my life to pivot and do something different or pay this off in some other way. Versus like, let me just push through and try to get to the other side and then you graduate and then you get a job and you push through and and now You’re dealing with like chronic depression or anxiety on a regular basis.

  ‍

  Elijah Jackson  10:05

  Absolutely. And so much guilt to you know, there’s, I think there’s a lot of guilt and shame that comes up for for people who pursue degrees that they don’t want. And they feel like they’re stuck in this space where you’re like, Oh, I am, I don’t want to be here. But everyone’s telling me that I’m so great and amazing for doing this. And everyone’s, like, so proud of me. And I am, I’m not enjoying it. I’m complaining, you know, I’m, you know, punishing myself, I’m making everyone else’s day, not good. You know, and there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of guilt and shame that comes with that. So you, I think it’s really important that, you know, when I sit down with clients, I, you know, just I try to normalize that their experiences, okay. Telling them that, sometimes telling them that being in a space, and being ambivalent about it is, you know, stages of change, you know, say that we’re allowed to be ambivalent, sometimes we get to a space, eventually, you know, where we feel more secure. And like, we can make a choice to do something different if we want to, but being in a space where we can identify a problem and not really know if we want to change it yet. That’s completely normal.

  ‍

  Imposter Syndrome and the pressure to succeed.

  Kira Yakubov  11:26

  And talk about the level of imposter syndrome. Right? I mean, people around you’re saying, Yeah, you’re doing great, this is incredible. And you’re like, Oh, my God, I’m barely trying to keep it together. Like everyone’s gonna find out. Oh, my God. It sounds it sounds really tough. And I like the you normalize it because it is the ambivalence, right? I think that’s the piece that makes people so uncomfortable. And it’s unsettling, because at least if it’s a decision that you don’t want, you’re already in it, right. And like, now you’re trying to navigate it versus like, kind of tip toeing the line of which way you should go. It’s tough to stay in that ambivalent space, for sure.

  Elijah Jackson  12:07

  Absolutely, you put so much stress and pressure on yourself to, to change things overnight. And this goes for anyone, you know, anyone who’s experiencing hardship, he’s like, even even I put pressure on myself, whenever I see a problem, I’m like, alright, well, this has to be fixed right now. Even though you know, you might not have the knowledge or the time or the energy to put into changing it, there’s still that pressure to get it done immediately. Especially, you know, I found like, for for like, immigrant people of color families, there’s the, you know, there’s the perfectionism aspect as well. So it’s like, we want to make sure that you are perfect, we want to make sure that you are the most marketable, you know, you have to work two times as hard to get just a modicum of success, you know, than the average privileged person. You know, we have to make sure that everything that you do is exceptional. And that pressure, you know, that doesn’t go unnoticed by my kids, you know, that doesn’t go unnoticed by young adults. And usually, it’s internalized, it’s not processed correctly. And we end up you know, in spaces where we’re not acknowledging that we need help, we’re not acknowledging that we need support, or that we’re even not enjoying what we’re doing. We’re just forgetting about all of it. And, you know, turning that into fuel.

  ‍

  Kira Yakubov  13:27

  Yeah. That’s so true. And I mean, I’m thinking about like, some of my clients and their parents, but also my parents, because you know, I immigrated here and even just bringing home homework, that was an A, it wasn’t 100 it was like a 97. And my dad’s like, what happened? You couldn’t do better? Dad, you know, and having like, that’s just a piece of homework, let alone like a career and like everything else, like you’re saying, and even being able to not feel safe enough to say like, I don’t enjoy this, I’m struggling, I need help. I’m anxious or depressed is like, this is this isn’t a real thing. You need to get it together and figure it out on your own. Stop doing all these extracurriculars and focus back on the main goal, which is this career and making money?

  ‍

  Elijah Jackson  14:17

  Absolutely, absolutely. We put so much pressure on ourselves, and students put so much pressure on themselves to, you know, if they’re going to do it, we’re going to do all of it, you know, I’m gonna have the perfect life. I’m gonna have all the extracurriculars, I’m going to have all the you know, all the friends. So it’s going to be amazing. I’m going to do it all and I’m like, hold on, let’s go down a bit. Let’s focus on what’s necessary right now. And then if we have space after that, we have more of a capacity for more, then we can think about more. But, you know, assigning all of these different, you know, responsibilities onto yourself, even though and your first semester of medical school or your first semester of law school. You know, it sounds like Have you taken on way too much too soon?

  ‍

  Kira Yakubov  15:02

  Yeah, that’s how we get burnout super quickly. With no end in mind, right? Like the burnout isn’t just I’m struggling right now it’s I’m struggling, I don’t know when it’s gonna end. It’s much harder to hold on when you don’t know when there’s an end date to it.

  ‍

  Elijah Jackson  15:18

  Burnout is, I feel like that’s probably the number one cause of, you know, midlife crisis. I think people, people work so hard in their younger years, because they’re told that they have to work hard in their younger years to make their later years easier. And then they forget that they’re people and that they have bodies and that sometimes our bodies have minutes. And it spirals and then they like, they hit like, 30, or they hit 40. And they’re like, oh, I don’t think I can work for another 30. You know, years, I don’t think I can do another 20 years of this. So I think it’s really important to reassess early, like, right after you graduate high school, or right, after you graduate college, reassess, what do I really want? You know, what’s really important to me? And what do I want to achieve in my life? You know, what are my values, you know, as opposed to what are the values that I was taught. And sometimes it might take some time to figure that out. Which is why I never, I never say it’s a bad idea to take a gap year, you know, a little time off and try to do a little self discovery, if it’s, you know, if it’s within the cards, you know, take some time to focus on yourself, and, you know, explore your own interests, you know, maybe take an internship somewhere, you know, or volunteer somewhere and see and see if you like it, as opposed to just setting these really high expectations of yourself, that sometimes aren’t even your own expectations.

  ‍

  Taking time to assess your morals and values.

  Kira Yakubov  16:55

  Yeah. And I love how you express needing to take time to assess on your own, and focus on those morals and values, because I feel like 1819, even 2021, like, really like, all the way up to your mid 20s, you’re kind of listening to everybody else around you getting their input getting way too much input. And from, like you said earlier, like people who are projecting, and so that reflection period is so critical, that a lot of I think maybe not a lot of teenagers do because they might not be prompted to do it not recognize that that’s like an option, or just rely on everyone else’s opinion. But I think like and I love giving this exercise to clients, I usually do it when they’re dating, but this applies, like anytime in your life is really assessing, what are your morals and values, right, like having a list of them, picking out the ones that really speak to you making a category for each one and kind of reflecting like you said, Is this my value? Or is this something that’s been passed down to me? And like, why is this important? How would my life look? If this wasn’t a part of it? Right? Like, what are the consequences of that, and having those real life experiences, those internships are so valuable and priceless? Because, you know, we can be in school and learning and like reading books, and that’s just like one level of it, versus going out and implementing it. You’re like, whoa, that’s not It’s not what I signed up for, even though it is what I signed up for.

  ‍

  Elijah Jackson  18:28

  Absolutely. I mean, I know firsthand, that my experience, even in school myself, I had, I didn’t know what the hell I was talking about as far as therapy until I started doing, you know, reading all the reading all the books, learning about all the theories, that’s one thing, but actually practicing and being in the room with another person. That’s a completely different experience. And I even had to, you know, I had to have my own come to Jesus moment where I was like, Oh, hey, this is nothing like there’s so much more, there’s so much more that’s needed, there’s so much more that’s required, I have to be so much more aware and involved. than then, you know, then my teachers told me that I had to be I have to, I have to think about my own self in the room. And I have to remember that I’m a person too. And I’m not just a you know, a platform. I’m like, this is a lot. So I have to have my own, you know, realization moment. And, you know, thankfully, I came out on the other side with more clarity about, you know, what I want to do, but sometimes people don’t have that moment of reflection. They’re not given that moment of reflection, because they’re told that they have to just keep going, you know, just keep pushing, get through it. You only have a few more years, you know, wouldn’t make sense to quit now. Just get through it. When really we need to be maximizing on today, you know, and say, Okay, let’s think about what we really What now? You know, let’s take a little bit of a break and, and explore what really matters to us, as opposed to, you know, this thing we’ve been telling ourselves forever.

  ‍

  How to deal with stress and anxiety?

  Kira Yakubov  20:09

  Yeah. And I think some of the best, maybe not the best ways, but one of the some of the beneficial ways to do that is obviously through therapy, right. I mean, I know we’re biased, because we’re therapists, but you know, having an objective person who doesn’t have a stake in the game, it’s not your parents, your friends are not going to be disappointed in you or expect anything of you to just let all these thoughts and emotions out. And then also journaling, right, like being able to also express this in a way that is freeing and safe. But I think that’s something I wish I had done when I was earlier, when I was early, earlier when I was going through school is because I went originally for accounting. Because my dad said, Oh, you’re good at math. And it’s a good stable job for a woman and you’ll get married and your husband will make the money anyway. So what differences I was like, cool, cool dad. And then, and then I got into college, and I started, you know, going for an accounting major, and then Drexel University, at a Co Op program where I got to do an internship at a tax firm. And that first week, I was like, huh, this is 1,000%, not for me. And there’s no way in hell, I can keep doing this for the next two to three years in school, let alone after that. And I wish that I reached out to other people in the psychology field or in the accounting field, who are already working to be like, can you just like, give me an inside scoop of what is your day to day? How do you feel? What are the best and worst parts of your job, or this field? To get more of that insight? Instead of you know, you should just do it, because you’re good at it. And I think it’s a good thing for your life.

  ‍

  Elijah Jackson  21:57

  Absolutely, absolutely. And also, sometimes making a career out of something that you’re really good at usually ends up becoming one of the most stressful things in your life. Like people who, people who are artists than they go to art school, you know, they’re trying to make a career out of being an artist, you know, they sometimes they lose their excitement for art, because it just becomes a part of the job. I have a client who is pursuing, you know, a degree in design, you know, and now that they’re doing it every day, and it’s not so much for fun and creation that’s for you know, to try to find a job. It’s not as enjoyable to them anymore. So you really have to think deeply about, you know, if this thing that you’re doing every day was a job, would it feel fulfilling for you? You know, would it be as exciting for you as it is now, and of course, every day of your life and you’re at work isn’t going to be amazing. But the majority of it should feel good. If it doesn’t, then maybe you might want to reassess, you know, and that goes for anyone with any job. If it’s just for the paycheck? Can you do it just for the paycheck job for the rest of your life? You know, yeah, I know I can. I don’t think that’s sustainable for me now mean, either some kind of some kind of connection to it.

  ‍

  Kira Yakubov  23:26

  I mean, it helps the we’re, you know, we’re in the field where we literally have to interact with people. And that would be really tough over like, No, I hate this. I don’t want to hear about your problems. But that’s how I felt about the accounting firm. I was like, I can’t do this every day. Like, no way I need more interaction with people. And it’s, you know, it’s interesting, because I think the more experience we have in something, the more we’re able to reassess microcredit, this aspect of this job, or this interaction is I like it. But this other aspect is definitely not going to work for me. So it’s even kind of just like playing around with these different things. And thinking about that first and then trying to apply it maybe to a future. Right, like, I mean, so really, it’s like just getting to know yourself on a much deeper level.

  ‍

  Elijah Jackson  24:20

  Absolutely, which is why I wish there was more opportunities for, for students in like high school, middle school to explore their interests, explore them in these environments, you know, rather than saying, figure it out on your own, and then you’re going to go to your guidance counselor, and tell them what you want to do. I think that instead, there should be actual things in the curriculum, you know, in high school and middle school curriculums to help people think more about their future, in a way, you know, like, I’ve never got that opportunity in high school and middle school to like, think about oh, wait, actually Want to do? What do you have an interest in? You know, it was more so just what colleges do you want to get into? You know? And what grades do you need to get into this college? You know, and not so much? What what do you actually want to do when you get there? You know, what do you want to explore? What are your interests, and we should have those opportunities to explore those things, you know, young, so that we can get a better idea about what this career entails? You know, because of course, a 15 year old could be like, oh, yeah, I want to be a doctor, that was cool. But then about what it actually means to be a doctor and how much it takes to get there. You know, I know I didn’t I, that was the first thing my father told me when I told him I wanted to go to college. He was like, well, you’re gonna get a PhD, and you’re gonna pay off all our debt. And I was like, that’s, that’s a lot. So yeah, I mean, expectations or expectations are high. And, you know, we have to make sure it’s really for us.

  ‍

  How do you help clients who want to change their minds?

  Kira Yakubov  25:59

  Yeah. How do you like to help clients who, whether they’ve already decided that they want to switch or do something different, and like, having some of these conversations with their parents, particularly from, you know, different backgrounds that aren’t just born in America,

  ‍

  Elijah Jackson  26:19

  I always, I always think the most important part is to make sure that we’re not absorbing other people’s, you know, negativity. So we already know that that’s going to be a hard conversation, because parents have high expectations, parents might be living through you in some ways, you know, it’s like, oh, I never got to go to medical school, I never got to go to law school. So I want you to do it. So you, you go in against that, going against the grain, and that way, it might cause some tension, and might bring up some things for the parents. So it’s, it’s best to make sure that you don’t internalize and absorb the things that they’re saying to you. Because if you go, if you if you’re telling yourself that they’re correct, and they’re right, they’re gonna you’re doing the wrong thing, you’re not going to change, you know, what’s gonna feel, you know, you’re gonna feel like guilty, that guilt and shame is going to come up again. And you’re not going to want to do what’s really important to you, you know, to discover what you want to do, you know. So I say that self talk is so important. It informs so much of our decisions. If we’re telling ourselves, we’re not worthy. If we’re telling ourselves, we’re doing the wrong thing. We’re telling ourselves that we don’t trust ourselves, we’re not going to act in our best interest, we’re usually going to try to stay comfortable, which most times isn’t even really comfortable.

  ‍

  Kira Yakubov  27:51

  Sure, that’s just familiar. It’s just what we’re used to. And I think it’s, man, it’s really tough. I mean, I literally had to have that conversation with my parents. And I’ve had clients who also, and the biggest thing that helped me was having someone else in my corner, even if it was one person that was like, you know, what, I do think this is a good idea, or I support you trying something different or thinking about it, right? Because, like you said that self talk is really critical. And it’s hard. I mean, of course, we’re going to question ourselves if we don’t have that much experience or knowledge. But having someone else who does support us and has our best interests in mind makes such a huge difference. And I’ll never forget this. And I’m really thankful that when I told my parents, like, I don’t want to do accounting, this is horrible for me. I want to go into psych, and I want to be a therapist. And these eastern European parents looked at me, like, I just shot them through the heart. I was like, Are you out of your mind? Like, you’re the pressure we came to America, we sacrificed so much for you to help quote unquote, crazy people. Like, are you insane? And they were like, totally no, because they were helping me pay for college. And then my one brother was like, you know, what? Do some research, look up what kind of jobs you would you would get that sound interesting, what they would pay and what you would need to do to get them and if you can get that information and share it to me, I’ll back you up to the parents. And I did that which was helpful for me to understand. And you know, in my culture, if the man says that you could do something, even if it’s my brother, they’re like, alright, well, I guess you can do it since he said, it’s a good idea, even though it’s life. Right? But having someone in your corner makes such a big difference to keep pushing through that resistance from your family.

  ‍

  The importance of having support.

  Elijah Jackson  29:44

  Absolutely supportive, so necessary. If we feel like there’s no one really rooting for us, if we feel like there’s no one who’s telling us even saying I trust you, you know, I trust that you’re going to do what’s best for yourself. They can make decisions harder. So we Got to make sure that we’re creating communities for ourselves that reflect that, you know, we might not always get that support at home. So we have to look for it elsewhere, you know, with our friends or, you know, with our peers in school, you know, with authority figures, like your teachers, and you know, sometimes, you know, sometimes your parents aren’t always going to think about, you know, what you want, they’re going to think about what they think is best for you. You know, so it’s, you got to make sure that you have someone that’s that’s actually listening to what you’re saying,

  ‍

  Kira Yakubov  30:32

  yeah, some kind of mentor or friend or someone in your community. Yeah, that can just provide that positivity in your ear.

  ‍

  Elijah Jackson  30:39

  Absolutely. I know, I had it I had, I definitely as much as I as much as I, I talk crap about guidance counselor. My mom was very supportive. She, every time I came up to her with an interest, she would, she would say, you know, you, you know, you, I trust you I trust, you know, what you’re doing, you know, you’re, you know, you’re doing what’s best for you. And that’s what matters. So it’s good to have those supportive people, especially adults, you know, when an adult tells you that you’re that, you know, they trust you and that you’re doing the right thing, it kind of kind of makes you feel more motivated. Yeah. Sometimes the kids get it, your peers get it, but not not the adults.

  ‍

  Kira Yakubov  31:23

  Yeah, and then just that boost of confidence, like hearing an adult or hearing someone say, I trust you to make a good decision. It’s like, wow, okay, so I want to make sure I make a good decision and think it through and make this person proud.

  ‍

  Elijah Jackson  31:34

  Absolutely. And it’s never too late to change, you know, signing up for medical school, or law school, or any of those big ones, that takes a lot of financial commitment. But if still, even then I don’t believe that’s enough to stay in it forever. Yeah, you can find something else you can pivot, you can choose what’s best for you, you know, it’s never too late to discover what your niche is.

  ‍

  Kira Yakubov  31:57

  Absolutely. I think especially now, where a lot of people don’t stay at the same job for a really long time. Or, you know, they learn new skills where they try different things. Like you’re allowed to have different parts of you that develop, and maybe you go into a particular career that you did actually like, and you did want to do, and you have enjoyed it. And now there are certain circumstances in your life, or it’s no longer doing it for you, you’re allowed to pivot, right, like quitting something is not a bad thing. I think knowing when to quit knowing when to let go is actually super powerful and not a weakness at all.

  ‍

  Elijah Jackson  32:32

  Absolutely. I had peers who have, you know, who have gone into therapy as a second career, you know, they do, they had some kind of like, high profile job, that didn’t really feel very fulfilling for them, you know, felt kind of soul sucking in some ways. And then, you know, they’re like, I need something that actually makes me feel like I’m contributing to the world. So they would go into social work, or they would go into therapy, you know, where they feel more invested in their communities. It really, it really, you know, it’s never too late. And these people, you know, you would think sometimes some people might say, you know, oh, well, why would you wait till you’re in your 50s? To do that? I’m like, it’s never too late to change. Yeah, you still have a, you still have a very fulfilling life ahead of you, you know, you’re never running out of time. And I think, you know, older adults tend to tell themselves that they’re always running out of time to do the things that they want to do. No, give plenty of time, you might not be able to act on it right now. Because there are things in the way. But that doesn’t mean that won’t change in the future. Sure. Let’s be patient with yourself. Patience is so important.

  ‍

  Kira Yakubov  33:34

  It is it’s very underrated. Because everything takes time, right. And even the way we feel one day to the next about something changes. Like I like to tell clients, especially when they’re in certain careers, if they did pick on their own and choose it’s, you know, that learning curve is going to take time, or there’s going to be certain things in your life that are going to make it harder to show up for work each day. And not seeing all of it in the lens of just this one particular experience or feeling like okay, like, let me write this down in journal and let me think about in a week, when I come back to reread this, do I still feel the same way? Right, or in two weeks, three weeks, because you know, every day we change, and we feel something different? And, you know, we make these assumptions about ourselves. Like if I felt this way this week, then this must be the worst thing in the world.

  ‍

  Elijah Jackson  34:24

  Absolutely. I think. I think it’s always whenever we have a bad day, we’re kind of like, oh, it’s horrible forever. But like, no, it’s just today’s that, you know, not every day. So sometimes it’s important to take a little perspective, like okay, you know, yesterday was bad, but yesterday was good. Or last week was good. I might be having a bad week and now, it might be horrible now, but sometimes you have to take a little perspective and say, not every day was bad, and bad days are almost guaranteed in the future. You can’t avoid this is just a part of Life. But was everything? Was everything horrible? I don’t think he was dead definitely didn’t need to make some changes, you know? Yeah, but I promise you, most times, not every day of your life is going to be horrible. So think more about those good days, too, instead of focusing only on the bad

  ‍

  Kira Yakubov  35:25

  ones. Sure, absolutely. And something that I was just came to my mind when we were talking about more. So like explaining to, you know, those parents and everything is learning is going to be a really tough one, learning to accept that they will be disappointed. And letting it be?

  ‍

  Letting go of expectations and expectations.

  Elijah Jackson  35:49

  Absolutely. I think for, for parents, they do a lot of lots of parents like to live through their kids, you know, so it’s like, oh, I created you. So you’re kind of an extension of me, and I want to be proud of this extension, I want to, I want this extension of myself to be able to do some of the things that I’ve never been able to do. And I want them to be secure and happy. And all this. And, you know, sometimes the intention is good. And the most times the attention is good when it comes to parents having expectations. But, you know, they kind of forget that. This extension of yourself that you created, there’s also an autonomous being who has to can make their own choices, and you know, they’re not tied to you, you know, at the hip, and they’re gonna want their own lines. And they’re allowed to have that. I’ve had many conversations with my parents about that. I’m like, Yeah, I get it. You know, you have you have these big goals for me. And I like these goals, I think that they’re, they sound good on paper, but I don’t know about in practice, you know, so I think I’m gonna try something different. And they’re allowed to go through their own, they can go through the motions and feel that grief, you know, that their kid doesn’t want to do what they want them to do, you know, you’re entitled to your feelings, but that doesn’t change the reality that kids should be able to explore what they want to explore.

  ‍

  Kira Yakubov  37:18

  Yeah. And I think a lot of times when parents are super pushy, it goes kind of one of two ways. I mean, honestly, there’s a million different ways it can go. But the the most common that I’ve seen is one is like, Okay, I’m going to do whatever they say anything to make them happy, go through this career, all of this stuff, and they end up being very depressed, have an identity crisis throughout all of it. And at some point, get really ill, right, like, they have to take time off in some way. Or they rebel, like, I’m going to do the complete opposite. Fuck you. Fuck these expectations, I’m going to be my own person, and really go against the grain in some other direction. And sometimes it’s good for them. And other times, it’s not the best, because, you know, if we’re only making a decision based on out of spite to somebody that’s not in our best interests, either. Right?

  ‍

  Elijah Jackson  38:10

  I think parents really need to give their kids time to explore their interests, you know? Because even even, you know, you get a lot of pressure at school, like, where do you wanna go to school? You know, what do you want to do? Let’s get this, get this paperwork, and let’s do this. And then you get the same kind of messaging at home. So I think like, it’s really important that, you know, younger people have the the opportunity to explore their interests, and not feel that pressure from their parents, because, you know, they’re going to make rash decisions, when they feel pressure, they’re not going to be fully confident in what they’re doing when they feel pressure, you know, and it’s just going to lead to more stress and unhappiness, you know. So I really feel like being a supportive, supportive parents are never bad parents, you know, accepting parents are never bad parents, you know, having having a parent that’s going to trust you is a good thing. You know, they may be young, but they are not imbeciles. They understand themselves, they understand what they want. They understand, you know, what they would like their life to look like, you know, they may have like, you know, fantastical, you know, feelings about one certain thing or, you know, they may have a niche interest that you don’t understand, but they’re still autonomous beings want things for themselves. So parents kind of loosen up the reins.

  ‍

  Kira Yakubov  39:42

  So I feel like this was like a parenting one on one by Elijah. Get it together.

  ‍

  Elijah Jackson  39:50

  Get it together. That’ll be my that’ll be my tagline.

  ‍

  Kira Yakubov  39:54

  Buddy, so I know we’re coming close to an end. Unfortunately, like we can talk about this and other things for a super long time, is there any last like thoughts or anything that you would want, you know, listeners or potential clients to hear about how you show up in the room, particularly around like this topic

  ‍

  Elijah Jackson  40:13

  kind of together? I just think that, you know, don’t come to me looking for someone to tell you what to do. I am I have a safe space for you to explore whatever you want to explore. And most therapists should be, you know, I think lots of lots of clients might come to therapy looking for them to answer the big question and give them the key to, you know, the access all of this all of these things, and I’m like, No, we’re gonna, I want you to remember that you’re in the driver’s seat here. You know, this is your life, you know yourself better than anyone. And I’m just a facilitator. You know, I’m here to facilitate the safe space. And I really think it’s important that clients remember how you know how strong they are, and how capable they are usually how resilient they are, you know? So if there’s ever a problem you’re going through, you most likely know the answer.

  ‍

  Kira Yakubov  41:13

  Awesome. Well, if anybody wants to work with Elijah, please head over to heal your roots wellness.com and schedule a console, and we’ll see if this will be a good match. But I want to say Elijah, thank you so much for making the time today to talk to me to make this episodes. I hope this really helps a lot of people that might be confused or struggling through their career path right now and it gives them a little bit of insight. Absolutely.

  ‍

  Elijah Jackson  41:40

  Thank you for having me. Of course.

  ‍

  Kira Yakubov  41:44

  All right. It’s a wrap.

  ‍